Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

You are not connected. Please login or register

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR"

5 posters

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Go down  Message [Page 1 of 2]

1R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 11:33 am

Defran

Defran

The only advantage of the optocoupler is the logical communication between circuits but with galvanic isolation (that is, without any connection between them or ground). simulide gives "circuit error" on a schematic like this. Tell me something please.

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Optoco11
Attachments
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" AttachmentOPTOCOUPLER_TEST.zip
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(2 Kb) Downloaded 6 times



Last edited by Defran on Wed Oct 11, 2023 3:53 pm; edited 4 times in total

arcachofo

arcachofo

Thanks. Hopefully solved at Rev 1919.

KerimF

KerimF

The node ground is simply the node which is assumed to be at 0V.
So, if the 'isolated' right circuit (above) doesn't have any node as ground, I wonder to which reference the voltages of its nodes are calculated.

In circuits to be simulated (not necessarily in real ones), there should be no parts in it isolated from the common ground node (of the simulator). This applies on simulated transformers which have 'electrically' isolated coils.

I mean simulIDE should pop up an error message when there is a part of the circuit which is isolated from its common ground node, unless the program adds its ground node somewhere in this part so that the voltages of the remaining nodes in it could be referred to the added ground. In other words, the voltage of every node in the simulated circuit is between the node and ground.

By the way, in real circuits, the ground in the isolated parts is the node to which the meter's ground (of a voltmeter, Oscilloscope... etc) is connected (which could be any node. if the meter's ground is isolated).

This is simply how I see it. But the last word here is surely not mine Smile

Alex68

Alex68

https://simulide.forumotion.com/t1630-transistor-optocoupler-model

There is a model of a transistor optocoupler. You just need to pack it in a case.

royqh1979



Alex68 wrote:https://simulide.forumotion.com/t1630-transistor-optocoupler-model

There is a model of a transistor optocoupler. You just need to pack it in a case.

I think the circuit posted by Defran here is a good demo for the new linkage function.

And …… maybe some visual clues to show linkages between components would be helpful? Or maybe a window which lists all the linkages in the circuit?

Defran

Defran

The link between LED and transistor works perfectly, what did not work is the electrical isolation between the two circuits (which is the only important thing about an optocoupler) that is why it gave a "circuit error" already solved by Arcachofo in the 1919 version. Thank you Arcachofo, now we just need to test it.

In the following example it is possible to see that the link works, but the to application circuit does not, when it is more complex. USE ONLY THE VERSION TRUNK 1894 OR HIGHER.

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Optoac10
Attachments
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" AttachmentOPTOACOPLADOR.zip
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(2 Kb) Downloaded 5 times



Last edited by Defran on Sun Sep 24, 2023 11:53 am; edited 2 times in total

Alex68

Alex68

Didn't understand. What kind of connection is this between the LED and the transistor in the program? IR?

Defran

Defran

Simply a link.

Alex68

Alex68

Masters. A bipolar transistor is controlled by current, not voltage.

In your link this is not the optocoupler model. It has no connection whatsoever with the LED.R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-366
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-367

10R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:26 pm

Defran

Defran

It's not magic, study how the liks are in the Simulide tutorials, where it is widely explained.

11R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 5:38 pm

Alex68

Alex68

Don’t explain to me how a transistor optocoupler works. What exists in our program is the connection between the LED and the instrument. ? In addition, you did not correctly place the control from the instrument on the base of the transistor. You just opened it and that's it. I SHOWED THAT YOUR SCHEME IS COMPLETE Nonsense AND NOT A MODEL. See how I made this model.

12R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 6:05 pm

Defran

Defran

There is no subcircuit in my schematic, it is made with the typical Simulide resources, on the other hand, as you know, I always publish my subcircuits in my examples in the "data" directory that I always attach.

Look at this, please, everything is explained here, better than I can. It is a section of Simulide Tutorials about links:
https://simulide.forumotion.com/t1556-linking-components
and there are more sections on the subject.

In short, it is based on linking one component with another (it is a software resource because IR coupling can only be done in the real-life component). In my example I have linked the LED to the Controlled Source by going to the LED properties: "Link to component", it is very simple.

I don't know how to explain it more or better, I'm sorry.

13R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:05 pm

Alex68

Alex68

Tell me please ? Where is the connection in your LED resource and the current source for the transistor. How is it controlled and by what?
The current source has control over its input circuit and its output circuit. You just have a current source and that’s it. He is not controlled by anything!R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-368
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-369

14R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:26 pm

Defran

Defran

What version of Simulide are you using?

15R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:28 pm

Alex68

Alex68

Here is a model of a transistor optocoupler and phase-pulse control of a lamp incandescenceR1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-370
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-371

16R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:32 pm

Alex68

Alex68

I work in 1530 and 1677. All subsequent versions do not work well for me. Windows 7 32 bit

Version 1530 has this element base. It is not available in subsequent versions.R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-372

17R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:49 pm

Defran

Defran

Try with 1894 or higher. The link of components only works with the latest versions.

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Optoac11

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Optoac12



Last edited by Defran on Sun Sep 24, 2023 12:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

18R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 7:58 pm

Defran

Defran

It is important to always use the latest version, otherwise you will become outdated and there will be things that do not work. Report any errors you find to Simulide so they can correct them, this is good for all users.

19R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 8:07 pm

Defran

Defran

If there are components that interest you and have disappeared in later versions, it is very easy to implement them in the new versions, copy them to the data directory and add the corresponding line in the "tools.xml" file and they will appear in this section of the menu. Too easy.

20R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sat Sep 23, 2023 10:29 pm

KerimF

KerimF

Sorry for interrupting you.
It seems I wasn't clear enough in my previous post about the natural error warning (of the title).

Let us assume that there will be no error message, in a future version of simulIDE. I wonder what will be the voltage value that will be shown by a voltage probe when it will be connected to the node OUT, for example, in the presented OP circuit. Could anyone know the answer?
I asked this because the voltage probe has to be referenced by the ground node (defined as 0V).
So, I guess, 'arcachofo' solved it, for this particular circuit, by adding a hidden ground node at one of the isolated part nodes, likely at the node labeled 0GND. Obviously, this will not be a global solution. I am afraid that a simulator needs to ask the user to add this ground node to where he sees more convenient to him (just for simulating the circuit, not in the real circuit).

Anyway, I may be wrong, and perhaps someone here knew another simulator which is supposed to work fine (no error warning) even if there is a part of the simulated circuit which is completely isolated and has, therefore, no ground nodes at all (not even one).

21R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:16 am

royqh1979



KerimF wrote:Sorry for interrupting you.
It seems I wasn't clear enough in my previous post about the natural error warning (of the title).

Let us assume that there will be no error message, in a future version of simulIDE. I wonder what will be the voltage value that will be shown by a voltage probe when it will be connected to the node OUT, for example, in the presented OP circuit. Could anyone know the answer?
I asked this because the voltage probe has to be referenced by the ground node (defined as 0V).

I guess, if there's not a reference point, the negative polar of the battery would be treated as 0V.

The following is taken from "Code: The hidden language of Computer Hardware and Software"
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Snap126
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Snap220
R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Snap416



Last edited by royqh1979 on Sun Sep 24, 2023 5:16 am; edited 2 times in total

22R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sun Sep 24, 2023 2:19 am

royqh1979



Alex68 wrote:I work in 1530 and 1677. All subsequent versions do not work well for me. Windows 7 32 bit

Version 1530 has this element base. It is not available in subsequent versions.R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" 2023-372

This is the "Testers" board. So the newest Tester version should be the basis of discussion.

23R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sun Sep 24, 2023 9:57 am

KerimF

KerimF

royqh1979 wrote:
I guess, if there's not a reference point, the negative polar of the battery would be treated as 0V

Yes, this is another special good solution.

But... there is always a but Smile

Where simulIDE will add the hidden 0V if there is no battery in the isolated circuit like an isolated secondary coil of a transformer Smile
The same applies when there are many batteries on different branches in the isolated circuit.

In brief, is it really difficult for the user to add a virtual 0V to a node of his choice in every isolated circuit (isolated from the user's main one)?
By the way, this is what I do when I use LTspice for example.

Regards,
Kerim

24R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:23 am

royqh1979



KerimF wrote:
royqh1979 wrote:
I guess, if there's not a reference point, the negative polar of the battery would be treated as 0V

Yes, this is another special good solution.

But... there is always a but Smile

Where simulIDE will add the hidden 0V if there is no battery in the isolated circuit like an isolated secondary coil of a transformer Smile
The same applies when there are many batteries on different branches in the isolated circuit.

In brief, is it really difficult for the user to add a virtual 0V to a node of his choice in every isolated circuit (isolated from the user's main one)?
By the way, this is what I do when I use LTspice for example.

Regards,
Kerim

I think the choice of the reference "ground(0V)" point won't affect the result of simulation ( and the real circuit´╝ë. In real digit circuit, a component's "ground" don't need to be connected to the earth. What matters is the voltage difference between the input and the "ground" pin.

So for two isolated circuit, their grounds don't have to be the same ( or have the same real voltage).

BTW: The existance of a reference point (ground) could easy the analysis/calculation of a digital circuit. So it's better to have one.

25R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Empty Re: R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and "CIRCUIT ERROR" Sun Sep 24, 2023 10:36 am

royqh1979



A demo circuit that set the ground to battery's positive pole:

R1909. OPTOCOUPLER and  "CIRCUIT ERROR" Snap514

Sponsored content



Back to top  Message [Page 1 of 2]

Go to page : 1, 2  Next

Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum