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74HC181 ALU 8-bit

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174HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:40 pm

Mistral



Can you tell which mode it is in?

74HC181 ALU 8-bit 74hc1810

With thanks to David Courtney who made three video's about this chip. And of course many thanks to the Simulide Team for including it to the components. 

Here are the video's, more information below it.
This subject fits well in my interest for simulating 8-bit breadboard computers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq0MIJjlGsw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmROTNtoUGI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwEVG_VzxMY
Datasheets:
https://mil.ufl.edu/3701/docs/74HC181_philips.pdf
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/sdls136/sdls136.pdf

The simu-file can be found here:
https://github.com/Alectus/Dump-sharing/blob/main/74HC181%20ALU%208-bit%20_%20completed.simu

274HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:41 am

Mistral



When the drawing of the Alu above was finished I wanted to have decimal numbers but not multiplexed or programmed because that would take me too long, it is rusty. I took a look at the 74185 but it is not in Simulide. So I took a rom instead and calculated all the numbers with pen and paper, the windows programmer calculator and this one because the results can be nicely copied: 
https://www.desmos.com/scientific?lang=nl
With notepad++ I made some kind of look-up table to shift it into the rom. This little project was not made with an example, this time I tied it up by myself and chose the 590 only based on its name provided in the components list. The .simu, , .txt, .png and .data files can be found here, all four have the title Eeprom 8-bit to 7-segment.

https://github.com/Alectus/Dump-sharing

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Eeprom10

arcachofo likes this post

374HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:51 am

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

Mistral wrote: So I took a rom instead and calculated all the numbers with pen and paper, the windows programmer calculator and this one because the results can be nicely copied: 

You can make it easier: we collect the scheme, as in the screenshot, run it, and in less than 0.01 seconds we get the firmware for the ROM. It remains only to save it. Then we collect the scheme to check the firmware.


I will make a model of the 74184 and 74185 chips in the near future. I wanted to make them for a long time, but it was impossible to save the ROM in the subcircuits. Now this restriction is not present, I already successfully apply them.


74HC181 ALU 8-bit Bcd_co10
74HC181 ALU 8-bit Bcd_co11

474HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:47 pm

Mistral



You can make it easier: we collect the scheme, as in the screenshot, run it, and in less than 0.01 seconds we get the firmware for the ROM. It remains only to save it. Then we collect the scheme to check the firmware.


That's really clever, thank you for the tip. I was in doubt if I would post my way of doing it but I'm glad I did. On the other hand, by calculating it myself a pattern emerged which can be usefull if I want to pick up programming again later. I will try to reproduce your picture but can already see a question come up - how can the chips on the right side be outputting when !OE is not connected? 


I will make a model of the 74184 and 74185 chips in the near future. I wanted to make them for a long time, but it was impossible to save the ROM in the subcircuits. Now this restriction is not present, I already successfully apply them.


Thank you. You already helped me a lot with showing the use of the 74HC4040, I skipped it because it said 12-stage counter. Yes, I know, mostly you can divide those things etc., but the 590 fitted like a glove.
I took a look at Development, maybe it would be nice if the developpers gave a little inside look on how you make the packages and how all the datasheet specifics are being incorporated. Is it not tedious work or do you have short cuts just like with programming the Rom above? Or for now, why is it that the plotter had to go? I read that in your post on your other forum. And will it return in 0.4.15 and when will that version be released to the public? Sorry about the many questions, and maybe it is not the right spot for it but that's what I was thinking. Have a nice day.  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f600 

574HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:19 pm

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

Mistral wrote:how can the chips on the right side be outputting when !OE is not connected?

In SimulIDE, unconnected pins have a low logic level, which makes it easier to build a circuit. In real chips, an unconnected input can have a high logic level.

Mistral wrote:I took a look at Development, maybe it would be nice if the developpers gave a little inside look on how you make the packages and how all the datasheet specifics are being incorporated. Is it not tedious work or do you have short cuts just like with programming the Rom above?

Developing a program is writing many hundreds and thousands of lines of code, then debugging, searching for errors. Creating subcircuits is simply redrawing logical schemas from the datasheet and then checking them. Sometimes you have to invent some nodes, because the information in the technical documentation is not enough. I.e. everyone has their own hard work. In the new versions of the program, new components have appeared at my request, now I can simplify some subcircuits. This means that the simulation of the schemes will be a little faster.

Mistral wrote:
Or for now, why is it that the plotter had to go? I read that in your post on your other forum. And will it return in 0.4.15 and when will that version be released to the public?

SimulIDE 0.4.15 will have an excellent 4-channel oscilloscope and an 8-channel logic analyzer. This is what many users wanted to see in the program. It will not appear until the errors related to the transition to the new engine are fixed (I hope that this will happen in the coming months). Subscribers have been using this version of the program for several months, so join us.

674HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:17 am

Mistral



Do you mean subscribing to the Simulide Youtube channel?



Another way to support me and get SimuliDE videos is subscribing to SimulIDE youtube Channel.



There are some work to do that doesn't require coding knowledge, for example creating subcircuits like the 74 series ICs.  (Mistral : ?????? Something to learn and try out for me here)

If you want to support this project you can do a donation.
Or become a patreon

And of course sharing this pages, videos, etc in social media.


>>
https://www.simulide.com/p/contribute.html



Well, I subscribed. And thanks for pointing this out for me, and for other readers, I've seen some Simulide video's of course but didn't know yet there was a channel for it. 


It also says it is helpfull to report bugs. If you take a look at the Tron-schematic and the Alu section on the top right you can see that the wires don't line up exactly with the pins of the 74HC283 full-adder chips. Oh, the picture doesn't open anymore, but it is still on Github.
https://github.com/Alectus/Tron-TTL/blob/main/Tron%2010%20completed.PNG

Strangely enough, when I try it now in another Simulide sketch with the same 283's the wires line up perfectly.
In the tron-project it didn't have any effect on performance as far as I could tell so mentioning it might be trivial and only cosmetical. The only 'problem' is that when this happens it is not certain for the user if it has other effects than only cosmetical, to be blunt, it gives a shaky impression. Tried replacing one with another from the components list but the mislining didn't go away. No idea why.

774HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Fri Mar 19, 2021 4:13 pm

Mistral



@Fizik_S
I drew your picture into Simulide, it worked at once  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f44d 
Then I started wondering why it worked because the !WE wire was not changing color, it stayed red the whole time. It took me a couple of hours testing. I tried to get the signal visualized on a scope but adding a scope to the schematic almost always resulted in a  crash. I took a freq-meter and that worked fine. Only by setting the clock to higher frequencies, like 10 or 100 KHz, I could see some color changes and occaissionally probe flashes. I took the clock with its logic gates to a separate simulide sketch and although it didn't crash anymore, the scope doesn't seem to react. Yes, it shows the frequency at its left panel but that's it. And if I connect the scope directly to the clock it does show a signal.

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Clock_10


For the picture above I didn't put the simu file on Github.
For the picture below it is on Github with the title Rom 8bit to 7segm extended.
https://github.com/Alectus/Dump-sharing

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Rom_8b10

I added some grounds to the !OE's but you are right, it is not necessary.

*****************

I have something in the scope display now. Auto has to be unchecked.

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Clock_11

874HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:14 am

arcachofo

arcachofo

Hi Mistral.

If you take a look at the Tron-schematic and the Alu section on the top right you can see that the wires don't line up exactly with the pins of the 74HC283 full-adder chips.
I have seen this some times, but never happened to me and I'm not sure how it is even possible.
I don't know if this happen while you are creating the wires or later after saving and loading again.
But this is not related to a concrete IC.

I took a look at Development, maybe it would be nice if the developpers gave a little inside look on how you make the packages and how all the datasheet specifics are being incorporated. Is it not tedious work or do you have short cuts just like with programming the Rom above?
As Fizik already mentioned, most ICs in simulide are subcircuits.
They are created dlike this:
- Create a circuit in simulide.
- Create a Package (ussually 2: a DIP package and a Logic Symbol).
- Create an xml "loader" file to load the model into simulide (or add to an existing one).

From 0.4.15 is it easier to create subcircuits and you can use graphical component like LCDs, Leds, Buttons, etc.
So it is possible to create "Boards" not only "Chips".

For versions <= 0.4.14 it is a bit more complex and need some knowledge about what works and what doesn't.

But in any case you can create your own subcircuits whenever you want.

It also says it is helpfull to report bugs.
It is not only helpful, it is essential.
Testing and finding problems is part of the development process.
Without this, it is impossible to make a program to work properly.
But testing takes a lot of time, ussually there is a team of people just for this task.
In simulide, only Fizik and some collaborator are doing regular testing.
But there are too many possible situations to test, so at the end, users are doing the task.

the scope doesn't seem to react. Yes, it shows the frequency at its left panel but that's it. And if I connect the scope directly to the clock it does show a signal.
Those short pulses can be tricky to catch in this version of the Oscope.
I think next versions solve some of these issues.

974HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:27 am

Mistral



Thank you arcachofo for your explanation. I found the tutorial
https://www.simulide.com/p/creating-packages.html
If I notice something strange again I will report it in the bugs section. This doesn't have to mean it really is a bug, it can also be my lack of understanding. However, before I send a post with a possible issue I will have tested and tried it myself for quite a while.

1074HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:50 am

Mistral



I am trying to make the Nibbler, I saw it here already made by Fizik_S
https://simulide.forumotion.com/t125-nibbler-4-bit-cpu
I have used mostly this schematic: 
https://github.com/pong74ls/Nibbler/blob/master/Documentation/Nibbler%20-%20Schematic.pdf
Double checked it and with empty Program Rom, empty uRom 1+2 and empty Ram I started it with a very slow clock speed (0.25 Hz) and noticed the Alu follow a pattern which I really don't understand when I look at the datasheet: 
https://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/pdf%20on%20typenumber/S/SN74HC181.pdf
I tested it and it should be noticed that CN, M, S0,S1,S2,S3,S4 are always low, so according to my understanding that should result in F=A Minus 1, see thruth table 1 in the datasheet. It doesn't do that but what it is doing I don't know. I am not saying there is a bug, maybe you want to take a look, I have the simu-files ready for that.

This is my drawing:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Cpu4_p10

My testing in circuit:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Alu-cp11

More testing out circuit:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit 74hc1811





It's too much to exactly tell what I see so that's why I put the files on Github, they have 'testing' in their title. There is also a docx with the results of what I see. 
https://github.com/Alectus/CPU-4bit-simulation
I should also mention that the results I saw are the same In Circuit as Out Circuit, so it is consistent.

I didn't try it yet with the Roms uploaded, am not so far yet. And I don't ask for a complete explaining and taking all your time but just would like to know if the 181 is working as it should ... or perhaps not?

1174HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 22, 2021 2:14 pm

Mistral



I am also not sure, discussing the 181 in this topic, if there are two or one types of 181?
They talk about Low and High active and the Low active 181 seems to be used in Simulide but where in the datasheet is the number of te High Active version with non-inverted pins? I would expect two different numbers like 181A or 181B or something? 

And notice the Cn difference between the NXP and SGS datasheets ??? 
NXP pin 7 is non-inverted but the SGS pin 7 is inverted?

NXP:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Nxp_da10
https://pdf1.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/view/15554/PHILIPS/74HC181.html

********************

SGS:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sgs-da10

https://pe2bz.philpem.me.uk/pdf%20on%20typenumber/S/SN74HC181.pdf

When I opened this topic about the 181 I was pretty confident I had gained some understanding about this chip but now I am not so sure anymore.  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f626

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sgs-da11

1274HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 22, 2021 4:09 pm

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

Mistral wrote:I am also not sure, discussing the 181 in this topic, if there are two or one types of 181?
They talk about Low and High active

There is only one chip: the SN74181. The active low and active high voltage levels for this chip are selected by the user. Some users put inverters on the inputs and outputs of the chip-you do not need to do this. You simply select the desired truth table from the datasheet and use it.

Mistral wrote:
I am trying to make the Nibbler, I saw it here already made by Fizik_S
https://simulide.forumotion.com/t125-nibbler-4-bit-cpu
I have used mostly this schematic:
https://github.com/pong74ls/Nibbler/blob/master/Documentation/Nibbler%20-%20Schematic.pdf



You have chosen an unsuccessful scheme to repeat. It is created in Proteus (I would like to see the source where the scheme is taken from). I think the author of this diagram used Proteus only to draw the diagram, not to simulate it. I can say this because Proteus does not have a working model of the 74HC377 chip (you can see this for yourself). In this scheme, the part that allows the scheme to work in step-by-step mode is thrown out. Without this mode, setting up Nibbler in the simulator can be a big problem. But I got a working version in SimulIDE for the author's set of components. The 74HC181 chip works correctly in SimulIDE. Without loaded ROMs, it is not possible to check the operation of Nibbler. I recommend the firmware "mastermind.bin". It works 100%. I managed to launch another firmware, but I don't remember which one. I recommend replacing the buttons with switches. The program will simulate a few minutes before there is a reaction to the pressed button. The clock generator must be set to a frequency of several kilohertz. The frequency is selected for each computer individually. At a high frequency of the clock generator, the simulation speed will be greatly reduced. You need to debug the scheme in step-by-step mode. If the simulation works immediately (an inscription appears on the LCD), then the circuit does not need to be debugged. In the firmware " mastermind.bin" I removed all the delays on the keyboard polling (I had to change the sources and compile everything again), but the speed of work did not increase much from this. If the scheme does not work, you will have to modify the scheme. I installed the decoders on the address bus and data bus, in front of the LCD, and compared the operation of my circuit with the working version of Nibbler in Proteus (link to the source: http://www.nedopc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10653 the archive is located in the last post). Differences in the decoder readings will indicate an error. I also want to warn you that a complete reset of the circuit occurs a few cycles after holding down the"reset" button. Improvements to the scheme are shown in the screenshot

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Nibble13

1374HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Wed Mar 24, 2021 2:38 am

Mistral



Thank you Fizik, good to know that the 181 is working correctly. And I will have to take a better look at your Nibbler simulation. I wanted to try it myself first but its not working. It does have a lot of animated activity, so that's a good sign but the display stays off.   Neutral

I took bin-files for the Roms here: 

Cpu4-Part5 is my first attempt with the Roms uploaded with bin-files taken from the Nibbler File Archive here: https://www.bigmessowires.com/nibbler/ The display shows no sign of life. The bin files get the extension .data when saved in Simulide.


*************************


Path to the uRom0 file :
C:\Users\xxxx\SimulIDE_0.4.14-SR4_Win64\SimulIDE_0.4.14-SR4_Win64\nibbler\Nibbler Files\Microcode Builder\MicrocodeBuilder\bin\Debug\microcode_0.bin


Path to the uRom1 file same as above but with other number : microcode_1.bin


Path to ProgRom:

C:\Users\xxxx\SimulIDE_0.4.14-SR4_Win64\SimulIDE_0.4.14-SR4_Win64\nibbler\Nibbler Files\examples\guess-the-number.bin

****************************

I mention this because I am not very familiair with all these different file-extension names. Hope I have uploaded the roms with the right files. But maybe it's the clock speed and will take a very close look at what you said about that. I checked all the wiring and tunnels 3 times, saw one flaw, I had not connected the Oprnd0/1 tunnels (In/Out-section), so my sketch is updated a little bit. Together with the simu- and data files a png is on my github, all with title Cpu4-Part5.
https://github.com/Alectus/CPU-4bit-simulation

The schemes from Pong and BigmessofWires are basically the same. Pong uses a bigger Rom and his reset is a little bit different, also the names of the tunnels differ slightly.

https://github.com/pong74ls/Nibbler/blob/master/Documentation/Nibbler%20-%20Schematic.pdf

****
Tunnels !LOADout stay high so the display doesnt get data. Tied !LOADout at uRom0 to Gnd and see a lot of activity at the display inputs. But no characters yet. Long time ago I used this HD44780. Need to look into it. At higher clock speeds >1 kHz the Ram gets stuck. Clk now at 10 Hz.
Anyway, this is going to take a while and even if it will not work at all I learned from it about computer architecture.  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f600

---------------------------

I took your advice and changed the ProgRom to mastermind

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Press_10

Clock is at 1 kHz, speed = 60%
I put the data-file at github, I call it Part6.
Thanks for your help and for letting us know about this project   Like a Star @ heaven

1474HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Wed Mar 24, 2021 6:43 am

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

Congratulations on the successful launch of the Nibbler virtual computer!

1574HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:38 am

Mistral



Yes, thank you   74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f603 
I am very pleased to see the display respond to the program. I am also glad that you pointed out that the buttons can take a while before it gets picked up. However, I start to wonder if it will respond at all, am waiting about 10 minutes and no change. Simulation time shows 00:01:30.
Clock at 10 kHz - Speed about 9%

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Cpu4_p11

Replaced the buttons with switches and leave them in the position as shown above.
******************
A number appeared on the display

1674HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Wed Mar 24, 2021 9:42 am

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

I ran the Nibbler simulation on SimulIDE 0.4.14 and SimulIDE 0.4.15. The difference in the work is huge. Performance increased by 3.5 times! (screenshots attached). The frequency of the generator is set to 20 kilohertz. I would like to express my deep gratitude to the author of the program for the work done. In the archive, I added my own version of the MasterMind firmware. I have reduced the delays to a minimum in it. Now you can see the cursor blinking on the screen.

SimulIDE 0.4.14
74HC181 ALU 8-bit Nibble14

SimulIDE 0.4.15
74HC181 ALU 8-bit Nibble15
Attachments
74HC181 ALU 8-bit AttachmentMastermind_delayless.zip
You don't have permission to download attachments.
(2 Kb) Downloaded 2 times

1774HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Thu Mar 25, 2021 8:17 am

Mistral



Yes, cursor is blinking!  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f603 

And Mastermind and Frogger give output:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Cpu4_d10
.
74HC181 ALU 8-bit Frogge10

TestRam and GuessNumber are motionless.
Waltz makes the speaker click but it always clicks at every program.
I enjoyed this project very much and can see that you use it and reprogram it to test and improve the simulation performance. That is above my knowledge.
Closed my github with 'part8 completed' and next thing to do is taking another look at the 74HC181.
It is working correctly, we can see that, but still don't quite understand my last remark about it above.
And taking a closer look at the HD44780.
And if I may make a suggestion, maybe the title of this topic can be changed to 'Nibbler and 74HC181 ALU' or maybe merged with Fizik_S' Nibbler 4 Bit CPU topic. Unless that would break up already existing links.

1874HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sun Mar 28, 2021 4:18 pm

Mistral



Fizik-S wrote:
There is only one chip: the SN74181. The active low and active high voltage levels for this chip are selected by the user. Some users put inverters on the inputs and outputs of the chip-you do not need to do this. You simply select the desired truth table from the datasheet and use it.


Thank you, that was very helpfull. The way I understand it now is that for high active you have to look at the H-signals and for low active look at the L-signals. And that indeed made more sense to me, I didn't do that before you mentioned this. Still, sometimes in the low active modus I see outcomes that do not appear in the high active modus when compared to each other. To be absolutely sure I should test it with a real chip but all my hardware electronics are stored in two big boxes already for more than 5 years now. And besides, I don't have a 181.


74HC181 ALU 8-bit 74hc1813

.
74HC181 ALU 8-bit 74hc1814
.
https://github.com/Alectus/Dump-sharing/blob/main/74HC181%20ALU%20Low%20Active%20testing.simu

**************************************************

Well, anyway, this is not about being wrong or right, this is about testing and understanding.
.
I found a new smaller project, also with a 74HC181, it is here:
https://www.instructables.com/Simplest-4-Bit-TTL-CPU/

https://content.instructables.com/ORIG/FPY/XLE3/J34PK4CH/FPYXLE3J34PK4CH.pdf

I am drawing it and I see an arrow on the databus but it isn't going anywhere as far I can tell.

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mp-4_d10


Does anybody know what this arrow is supposed to mean?
Thank you  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f603

1974HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Sun Mar 28, 2021 6:44 pm

Fizik_S

Fizik_S

You can ignore the arrow. Only the author of the diagram knows the purpose of the arrow. Possible arrow value - additional input or output ports can be connected to the data bus. I recommend that you build the circuit in SimulIDE and check it for performance.

2074HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:43 am

Mistral



Thank you again, I'll skip the arrow  Very Happy
A problem is arising, 0.4.14 crashes on 74HC573 and 0.4.13 is not crashing on it.
So I compared both data-ic74 files and on package and LSpackage I see no difference, but subcircuits are not the same. This is a fragment of 0.4.13 subcircuit:
Code:
<subcircuit enodes="0">

    <item itemtype="eLatchD"
    channels="8"
    inputEnable="true"
    tristate="true"
    connections="
    outEnable-Package_!OE
    input0-Package_D0
    input1-Package_D1
    input2-Package_D2
    input3-Package_D3
    input4-Package_D4
    input5-Package_D5
    input6-Package_D6
    input7-Package_D7
    output0-Package_Q0
    output1-Package_Q1
    output2-Package_Q2
    output3-Package_Q3
    output4-Package_Q4
    output5-Package_Q5
    output6-Package_Q6
    output7-Package_Q7
    inputEnable-Package_IE" >
    </item>
    
</subcircuit>

This is a fragment of 0.4.14 subcircuit:

Code:
<subcircuit enodes="0">

    <item itemtype="eLatchD"
    channels="8"
    clock="true"
    tristate="true"
    connections="
    outEnable-Package_!OE
    input0-Package_D0
    input1-Package_D1
    input2-Package_D2
    input3-Package_D3
    input4-Package_D4
    input5-Package_D5
    input6-Package_D6
    input7-Package_D7
    output0-Package_Q0
    output1-Package_Q1
    output2-Package_Q2
    output3-Package_Q3
    output4-Package_Q4
    output5-Package_Q5
    output6-Package_Q6
    output7-Package_Q7
    clock-Package_IE" >
    </item>
    
</subcircuit>

0.4.14 :  clock-Package_IE" >
0.4.13 :  inputEnable-Package_IE" >

573 has no clock, see datasheet
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT573.pdf

I deleted the .14 subcircuit, replaced it with the .13 subcircuit and now I can place the 573 into .14 without crashing. However, it does not seem to respond to input signals the same way like it does in .13.
In .14 I need to pulse IE and !OE before input goes to output and with IE High and !OE Low I think the inputs should go straight to the outputs. In .13 it does so.

Picture from .14, notice D0 :

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Simp4_10

2174HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:12 pm

arcachofo

arcachofo

Hi Mistral.

Looks like there is some problem with 573 in 0.4.14-SR4.
I will have a look.

Yo can just use a Latch, which is exactly the same.
But I think the problem should be easy to solve.

2274HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:23 pm

arcachofo

arcachofo

This subcircuit file work for me in 0.4.14-SR4 ( there was a wrong property):

Code:
<subcircuit enodes="0">

    <item itemtype="eLatchD"
    channels="8"
    trigger="2"
    tristate="true"
    connections="
    outEnable-Package_!OE
    input0-Package_D0
    input1-Package_D1
    input2-Package_D2
    input3-Package_D3
    input4-Package_D4
    input5-Package_D5
    input6-Package_D6
    input7-Package_D7
    output0-Package_Q0
    output1-Package_Q1
    output2-Package_Q2
    output3-Package_Q3
    output4-Package_Q4
    output5-Package_Q5
    output6-Package_Q6
    output7-Package_Q7
    clock-Package_IE" >
    </item>
    
</subcircuit>

2374HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 4:14 pm

Mistral



Hello arcachofo,
I have no clue why only my 0.4.14 crashed every time when I tried to drag the 573 from the componenents list into the drawing field, only that it did. I did not look for a replacement yet, wanted to let Simulide know that there is a possible issue. It is a transparent latch, as you will know and I will look for replacement later, when I am finished with it, just to try and as excercise.
In my previous post I said I deleted the 4.14 74HC573 subcircuit and replaced it with the 4.13 subcircuit version but that was not completely correct, I moved the 4.14 573 files onto my desktop.
I used your code to change the 4.14 74HC573.subcircuit and placed everything back from the desktop into the ic74-folder.
The 573 works fine now, and not only that, it behaves the same way as in 4.13 so everything is looking good now.
Thank you very much  74HC181 ALU 8-bit 1f603 

I am almost finished with this MP-4, one more time checking wires, uploading Roms and then it should work, I hope.

By the way, did you see the switches at the scope-channels?
Couldn't find another way to turn a channel on or off.

2474HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:06 pm

arcachofo

arcachofo

By the way, did you see the switches at the scope-channels?
Couldn't find another way to turn a channel on or off.
In this version there is no way other than disconnecting it.

In next version (will be available soon) there is an option to hide channels:

74HC181 ALU 8-bit Oschid10

2574HC181 ALU 8-bit Empty Re: 74HC181 ALU 8-bit Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:08 pm

Mistral



Looking forward to it.
Although I am very pleased with this scope already.

Found replacement for 573, it is the 373 which I used several times before.
This seems to be the only difference in the 573:
Inputs and outputs on opposite sides of package allowing easy interface with microprocessors
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT573.pdf
373:
https://assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/74HC_HCT373.pdf


And there is some difference in paragraphs 6 - Functional description
In this MP-4 schematic LE is tied to high so it won't matter, probably.
https://content.instructables.com/ORIG/FPY/XLE3/J34PK4CH/FPYXLE3J34PK4CH.pdf
Difference or not, it won't matter for me anymore anyway because you fixed it.  Wink
But maybe other users who want to try it have the same issue after I share it on my Github and in this topic: https://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/list_messages/2043958/last

So I will try to replace the 573 with 373 in my final version.



Last edited by Mistral on Mon Mar 29, 2021 6:33 pm; edited 3 times in total

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